[5e Conversions] Magical +s

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EvilGenius
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[5e Conversions] Magical +s

Post by EvilGenius »

For conversion, I was considering how enchantment bonuses convert from a 1-5 to a 1-3 scale. I think it's fairly straightforward:

3e _________ 5e
+1, +2 _____ +1
+3, +4 _____ +2
+5 _________ +3


Sound good?
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setanta14
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Re: [5e Conversions] Magical +s

Post by setanta14 »

Works for me.

Downside is that all Protection items (Ring or Cloak) are max +1 in 5E, and Resistance items are against specific damage types. Bracers of Defense (Armor) are fixed at +2 and conditional to no armor/shield. This scales things back to the mortal world in 5E standards.
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Hardcorhobbs
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Re: [5e Conversions] Magical +s

Post by Hardcorhobbs »

I was thinking about going back and tweeting some of my magic gear in this exact manor. I'm also going to toss some stuff that doesn't have a direct conversion into a second category for now. Rex for instance has so much gear it's worth knowing what he has for wealth purposes, but not for functional gear purposes.
setanta14
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Re: [5e Conversions] Magical +s

Post by setanta14 »

For items like Amulets of Natural Armor, or Cloaks of Resistance, we should come up with reasonable alternatives, or just convert them into coin, sound ok?
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NukeHavoc
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Re: [5e Conversions] Magical +s

Post by NukeHavoc »

I think it's a good starting point when there's not a 5e equivalent available. Where possible, I think we should defer to the 5e version (e.g. amulets, rings, and such). The final version likely needs to take into account the magic item's special abilities; there may need to be scaled back based on context.
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EvilGenius
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Re: [5e Conversions] Magical +s

Post by EvilGenius »

setanta14 wrote:For items like Amulets of Natural Armor, or Cloaks of Resistance, we should come up with reasonable alternatives, or just convert them into coin, sound ok?
I think Amulets of Natural Armor should be converted to gold or be converted to have some other effect (maybe adjust your base AC if you aren't wearing any armor? Possibly would stack with Bracers of Defense?)

Cloaks and Rings of Resistance were split out from the 1e and 2e cloaks and rings of protection. 5e folds the resistance and AC bonus back into the Ring of Protection. So you could convert them as a Ring or Cloak of Protection, or maybe just choose which resistance you want. So a 3e Cloak of Resistance could either be a Cloak of Protection, or a Cloak of Fire Resistance, for example. I think either conversion is perfectly reasonable.
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NukeHavoc
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Re: [5e Conversions] Magical +s

Post by NukeHavoc »

I think for armor bonuses we should look at the total AC. If your character's AC is going much past 20, then consider converting it to gold (though how much gold are we talking about?) If it was essential to some sort of light-armor, no-armor build, then I'd consider a custom conversion.
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Hardcorhobbs
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Re: [5e Conversions] Magical +s

Post by Hardcorhobbs »

I wouldn't suggest converting things to gold. 5E doesn't have values for magic items; so we'd be going back to earlier editions to do so.
I'd suggest working on the items we really want for our characters, and leaving those we can't easily convert on a list for now. With the three item attunement limit there's no reason to go nuts trying to re-work everything on a character's sheet. We just won't need it all. Keep it for trophies (or later supplements that may have closer stats)
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NukeHavoc
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Re: [5e Conversions] Magical +s

Post by NukeHavoc »

Hardcorhobbs wrote:I wouldn't suggest converting things to gold. 5E doesn't have values for magic items; so we'd be going back to earlier editions to do so.
I'd suggest working on the items we really want for our characters, and leaving those we can't easily convert on a list for now. With the three item attunement limit there's no reason to go nuts trying to re-work everything on a character's sheet. We just won't need it all. Keep it for trophies (or later supplements that may have closer stats)
Upon reflection ... good idea. :)
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Re: [5e Conversions] Magical +s

Post by Lars Porsenna »

Keep in mind also that 5e is still a magic ecosystem in which +3 magic items exists. +3 plate ALONE would give you a 21 AC. Combine that with a +3 shield and you're already at 26 AC. Now I am not saying because these things exist, that we should do it. But they're in there for a reason.

FREX Moraim has +2 Full Plate under 3e. Converting to 5e gives him +1 Plate. AC 19 without even adding anything else. He had a +2 Shield, or +1 in 5e, already at 22 AC. This is with magic armor that is not in any way IMHO extreme.

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Re: [5e Conversions] Magical +s

Post by setanta14 »

Yes, but a +3 in 5E is now like the +5 of old... Holy Avenger's even max out at +3, and they were the highest published weapons that mortals had access to.

The highest enchantment item that any of my characters had was the +4 Wounding Bastard Sword that Ian had, and it only got that way from a Wish spell.
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Re: [5e Conversions] Magical +s

Post by EvilGenius »

One thing that's interesting to note: in the DMG random treasure tables, magical plate mail is on a much higher table than, say, a +1 shield. Magical plate of any kind only shows up on Table I, with a bunch of Legendary items. So even though under the Armor listing, a +3 set of armor is considered Legendary, even +1 plate wouldn't be found in a random horde with lesser items.
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NukeHavoc
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Re: [5e Conversions] Magical +s

Post by NukeHavoc »

Lars Porsenna wrote:Keep in mind also that 5e is still a magic ecosystem in which +3 magic items exists. +3 plate ALONE would give you a 21 AC. Combine that with a +3 shield and you're already at 26 AC. Now I am not saying because these things exist, that we should do it. But they're in there for a reason.

FREX Moraim has +2 Full Plate under 3e. Converting to 5e gives him +1 Plate. AC 19 without even adding anything else. He had a +2 Shield, or +1 in 5e, already at 22 AC. This is with magic armor that is not in any way IMHO extreme.
Here's what I'm struggling with - what is it we are trying to accomplish with these conversions? Are we trying, wherever possible, to map things one-to-one between the editions (or maybe 2-to-1)? Or are we trying to create something thematically similar?

As I read through our conversions, I think the biggest challenge we're coming up against are the properties on the magic items rather than the straight up pluses on those items. 5e does not have the concept of weapon attributes. Where as before you might have had a +2 dancing defender sword, in 5e each one of those would be a magic item in its own right.

Take the classic flaming sword: it's not a +1 sword with the flaming property ... it's just a flaming sword. Or the iconic Frost Brand; it has various additional abilities (bonus cold damage, sheds light in freezing temps, extinguishes flames), but it doesn't have a plus bonus to attacks and damage. In terms of armor and weapons, the items we see that *do* have multiple abilities are either intelligent weapons or artifacts.

While 5e has many of the elements we used to see in 3e, IMHO they aren't meant to be combined in the same way. If you do, you're getting magic items of legendary status. Something like Redoubt (+1 Heavy Adamantine Shield, Called, Animated, Resistance vs Necrotic (Attuned)) is a legendary magic item (even if it wouldn't be in 3e).

I don't have a sense for how many of those kinds of weapons a 20th level PC in 5e would have -- maybe they would have 2 or 3 at that point, all requiring attunement. After all, these are characters at the vary height of their powers ... but I do think we need to view such items as truly unique, truly legendary. In 5e, Redoubt is like Captain America's shield -- the sort of item that you'd expect Vance Astro to pick up and wield 1000 years in the future as part of the year 3000 Guardians of the Galaxy. in 3e, well, it'd be a pretty cool shield. :)

To go back and answer my own question, I'm personally inclined to go with thematically similar, So I'd convert Redoubt as an animated shield (no magical bonus) with one other attribute.

If we're going to try and map things more literally then I'm concerned that these characters will simply break 5e. In that case, maybe we should say that some characters simply can't be served well by 5e and they should be converted to Pathfinder in all its crunchy glory.
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EvilGenius
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Re: [5e Conversions] Magical +s

Post by EvilGenius »

Yeah, I see what you're saying. And I'm not opposed to reducing all of the abilities and stuff. But I'd also like to point out that these characters are only coming out of retirement for a single purpose: to fight Woryx. It's not like we have to worry about balance vs orcs and ogres and trolls, after all.

And I'm totally ok with lowering the pluses on things and coming back down to more reasonable armor classes, but if we all de-escalate and then Woryx hits everyone with every attack every round, then I'm going to call bullshit (probably from the great beyond ...). :)

We're fully expecting Woryx to be a legendary monster, so let's be careful how much we knock down our legendary characters.
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Re: [5e Conversions] Magical +s

Post by EvilGenius »

Also, for reference, Ancient Black Dragons have +15 attack bonuses for their physical attacks. And that's before Ken does all of his shenanigans ..... :D
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