Ravenloft preparations and intro

For discussion of the Expedition to Ravenloft
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NukeHavoc
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Post by NukeHavoc »

So has anyone volunteered to be the straight-class rogue yet?
"Oh, I'm so sorry. Forgive me. I'll try and be a tad more quiet as I desperately struggle to break free -- and save all creation!" -- Doctor Strange
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EvilGenius
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Post by EvilGenius »

nope.
NukeHavoc wrote:So has anyone volunteered to be the straight-class rogue yet?
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Hardcorhobbs
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Post by Hardcorhobbs »

NukeHavoc wrote:So has anyone volunteered to be the straight-class rogue yet?
I might be willing, unless your volunteering Ken. I'm still debating between a few classes: Bard, Wizard/Sorc, Rogue.
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Post by malphas »

EvilGenius wrote:and while knowledge skills aren't *bad*, bardic knowledge *does* infact cover everything. :)
yes, it does. and despite what ken thinks, using a knowledge skill doesn't take an action.
Action
Usually none. In most cases, making a Knowledge check doesn’t take an action—you simply know the answer or you don’t.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/knowledge.htm

and relaying that information is a free action.
Speak
In general, speaking is a free action that you can perform even when it isn’t your turn. Speaking more than few sentences is generally beyond the limit of a free action.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/action ... .htm#speak

the more you know!
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erilar
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Post by erilar »

[sigh] I guess you guys aren't going to be content to help make this easier for me.

I'm not overly against the Knight class in concept or power. Keep in mind that these Challenge-type abilities won't work on undead though, and there are a lot of undead foes in the campaign. The ghouls are still going to run right past you and eat the juicy halfling instead, etc. Please photocopy the Knight section from your book for me to have as a reference if you decide to go with it.

George, the Dragon Shaman sounds a little too Swords & Sorcery for Greyhawk, IMO. If you want to get me a synopsis of the Marshall class, I'll take a look at it.

Just don't be surprised if I'm extra grumpy when confused about your crazy characters' abilities if you insist on playing this weird stuff. Werewolves are known to be more vicious when the DM is grumpy...

Nate - I'll get the description of those feats for you over lunch, and also give some hints as to the Ravenloft prestige classes that will become available during play.
"This enemy you cannot kill. You can only drive it back damaged into the depths, and teach your children to watch the waves for its return." - Quellcrist Falconer
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NukeHavoc
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Post by NukeHavoc »

malphas wrote:
EvilGenius wrote:and while knowledge skills aren't *bad*, bardic knowledge *does* infact cover everything. :)
yes, it does. and despite what ken thinks, using a knowledge skill doesn't take an action.
Action
Usually none. In most cases, making a Knowledge check doesn’t take an action—you simply know the answer or you don’t.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/knowledge.htm
What you know off the top of your head is, IMHO, different than really *thinking* about what you know. So sure, remembering the name of a demon should talk no time (thus the "usually" bit), but remembering all its strengths, weaknesses and special abilities? I still say it takes a few seconds to consult your encyclopedic knowledge.
"Oh, I'm so sorry. Forgive me. I'll try and be a tad more quiet as I desperately struggle to break free -- and save all creation!" -- Doctor Strange
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NukeHavoc
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Post by NukeHavoc »

erilar wrote:[sigh] I guess you guys aren't going to be content to help make this easier for me.
heh. easy != Blackrazors. :)

Look, you're the DM and if you're not comfortable with this stuff, just say so. I'm fine with that, and I think everyone else should be to. Ultimately, if the DM is confused, fumbling with books, or just out of sorts with different rules, the campaign will suffer so better to just cut that out from the beginning.

We can play the wild and crazy crap in some other campaign (like, Expedition to Greyhawk Ruins)
"Oh, I'm so sorry. Forgive me. I'll try and be a tad more quiet as I desperately struggle to break free -- and save all creation!" -- Doctor Strange
setanta14
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Post by setanta14 »

What I posted are the complete Knight rules from the PHBII

erilar wrote:[sigh] I guess you guys aren't going to be content to help make this easier for me.

I'm not overly against the Knight class in concept or power. Keep in mind that these Challenge-type abilities won't work on undead though, and there are a lot of undead foes in the campaign. The ghouls are still going to run right past you and eat the juicy halfling instead, etc. Please photocopy the Knight section from your book for me to have as a reference if you decide to go with it.

George, the Dragon Shaman sounds a little too Swords & Sorcery for Greyhawk, IMO. If you want to get me a synopsis of the Marshall class, I'll take a look at it.

Just don't be surprised if I'm extra grumpy when confused about your crazy characters' abilities if you insist on playing this weird stuff. Werewolves are known to be more vicious when the DM is grumpy...

Nate - I'll get the description of those feats for you over lunch, and also give some hints as to the Ravenloft prestige classes that will become available during play.
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Post by malphas »

the marshal class is pretty cool.

for all of you bardic types you might want to consider taking 2 levels of marshal.

as lance mentioned YOU ARE GOING TO BE FIGHTING A LOT OF UNDEAD
so most of your bardic abilities will NOT work on them, however you can use them to bolster the party. up until 3.5 the bard was a pretty weak class, but now it is a really solid support class. however i think tactically speaking, 2 bards in a party is excessive, and 3 is just downright ridiculous. someone should roll up a good lock & trap thief, sneaky stuff isn't going to help much since almost all intellegent undead have life-sense. multiclass with stuff from complete adventurer and pick skills and abilities that allow you to use your sneak attack on undead.

an ideal party make up for this sort of thing would be 1 tank fighter or cleric 1 turn & dust cleric, 1 support cleric or bard/marshal combo, 1 or 2 really strong wizards or sorcerers with appropriate spell selections and feats that maximize fighting undead. 1 lock/trap rogue as above.

but you know, make whatever character you want, just make sure your gnome bard/illusionist/co-joined twin/lovemaster has some good loot we can score off him when he is turned into vampire-spawn.
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Post by setanta14 »

The Challenge stuff would work on non-mindless undead (Int 5+ required)
erilar wrote:[sigh] I guess you guys aren't going to be content to help make this easier for me.

I'm not overly against the Knight class in concept or power. Keep in mind that these Challenge-type abilities won't work on undead though, and there are a lot of undead foes in the campaign. The ghouls are still going to run right past you and eat the juicy halfling instead, etc. Please photocopy the Knight section from your book for me to have as a reference if you decide to go with it.

George, the Dragon Shaman sounds a little too Swords & Sorcery for Greyhawk, IMO. If you want to get me a synopsis of the Marshall class, I'll take a look at it.

Just don't be surprised if I'm extra grumpy when confused about your crazy characters' abilities if you insist on playing this weird stuff. Werewolves are known to be more vicious when the DM is grumpy...

Nate - I'll get the description of those feats for you over lunch, and also give some hints as to the Ravenloft prestige classes that will become available during play.
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NukeHavoc
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Post by NukeHavoc »

setanta14 wrote:The Challenge stuff would work on non-mindless undead (Int 5+ required)
I think the bigger question is will this play havoc with the setup of the Ravenloft campaign? The diplomatic/bard-like aspects of the Knight may work, but I can see abilities like the Knight's Challenge ("I pick YOU, Count Straud!") as being problematic. Granted, this is an adventure, not a narrative, but IMHO these kind of knight's abilities are more in keeping with the battlefield, city adventure, or even a conventional dungeon than with Ravenloft.
"Oh, I'm so sorry. Forgive me. I'll try and be a tad more quiet as I desperately struggle to break free -- and save all creation!" -- Doctor Strange
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erilar
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Post by erilar »

NukeHavoc wrote: Look, you're the DM and if you're not comfortable with this stuff, just say so.
Yeah, well - I thought I already did, hence my annoyance.

I'm ok with the Knight. Hopefully, after a few combats, the new Challenge stuff will be 2nd nature.

Specifically though, I want to avoid new types of spellcasting and other crazy zibber-jabber like that. The core 3E classes are incredibly flexible given the huge list of feats and spells. Let's work with those for now and let me focus on reading the rest of the campaign. I want to do a good job for you guys and not be bogged down and confused by a bunch of new rules, and that's why I asked what I did.

Stick to the core PHB1 classes, modified by spells and feats from the Complete books and Spell Compendium for now. George, still send me a description of the Marshall if you like.
"This enemy you cannot kill. You can only drive it back damaged into the depths, and teach your children to watch the waves for its return." - Quellcrist Falconer
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NukeHavoc
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Post by NukeHavoc »

Hardcorhobbs wrote:I might be willing, unless your volunteering Ken. I'm still debating between a few classes: Bard, Wizard/Sorc, Rogue.
You know what, I think I will take the rogue. I'm thinking of making him a burgler extraordinaire -- great at breaking into places quietly, disabling any traps, cracking safes, and then making off with the goods. He'd have a knack for stealing from the rich and famous, thus his reason for accepting the quest to Barovia (and a secret hope to get close to Castle Ravenloft).

He'd have some small ability in sneaking, but better diplomatic skills since most of the time he's brazenly talking his way into his victim's house/castle/whatever.
"Oh, I'm so sorry. Forgive me. I'll try and be a tad more quiet as I desperately struggle to break free -- and save all creation!" -- Doctor Strange
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Post by malphas »

NukeHavoc wrote:What you know off the top of your head is, IMHO, different than really *thinking* about what you know. So sure, remembering the name of a demon should talk no time (thus the "usually" bit), but remembering all its strengths, weaknesses and special abilities? I still say it takes a few seconds to consult your encyclopedic knowledge.
maybe if you were taking 10 or 20 on it or if you were doing research. it seems to be somewhere between an immediate action and a free action.
but then again you have trouble remembering where your keys and wallet are.
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Post by Lars Porsenna »

EvilGenius wrote: and while knowledge skills aren't *bad*, bardic knowledge *does* infact cover everything. :)
The D20 SRD seemed to indicate Bardic Knowledge is much more specific (I don't have it handy right now). I'll look in the PHB to see if it is worded differently. If we're playing that Bardic Knowledge does cover everything, then yeah I'll drop the skill points in the knowledge sections, and rely on Jack-of-All-Trades (which allows me to make an unskilled check) and Bardic Knowledge/Obscure Lore...

Damon.
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