Guts vs. Spirit / Sanity Systems

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NukeHavoc
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Guts vs. Spirit / Sanity Systems

Post by NukeHavoc »

Last night we ventured into the more horrific side of Pulp Weird with the Wardens encountering some extremely unsettling wall murals in the tenement lair of a Goat-God Cult. This triggered some Spirit checks to avoid a Fear response (McGinnis, who has a d4 Spirit, failed his check, but reacted with an Adrenaline Rush, which actually bolstered him).

After the game, this gave rise to two questions that we said we'd come back to later (and now is "later" :)).

1. Spirit vs. Guts As of Savage Worlds Deluxe, the "Guts" skill (used to make Fear checks) was dropped in favor of Spirit. This had the benefit of freeing up some extra skill points for use elsewhere. The downside was that as a player, you couldn't have a low Spirit but a high Guts check (e.g. perhaps you lack a certain mental fortitude in dealing with regular people, but you're a steely-eyed missile man when it comes to fighting the occult).

Bob suggested adding the Guts skill and perhaps giving all of the Wardens a d4 in it to represent their experience encountering the weird.

Whether or not you have a Guts skill is really a question of setting flavor. Do you want heroes who's mental resolve / psychological fortitude / brain defense improves with experience? If so, Guts is a way to reflect that. It lets some PCs (say McGinnis) to have a world-weary sense of horror, while others (Alistair?) are wide-eyed and don't really *know* what's out there.

From a game stand point, having Guts as a skill, instead of making Spirit checks, makes things harder for the PCs. If you bring in Guts at a d4, but your character has a d6 or d8 in Spirit, you're taking a hit. Granted, you can buy that skill up, but to start you'd be in a worse place. With Spirit-based checks you can still develop that mental fortitude, you're just doing it by buying up your Spirit trait.

My sense is that the Spirit-based check is more in keeping with a heroic-style pulp campaign, where as Guts would fit better with a darker, more noir-ish campaign. My vote would be to stay with Spirit, mostly because I think it benefits the PCs more and will keep a larger number of heroes from going crazy or dying from fear.

2. Sanity

The bigger question, IMHO, is Sanity. Savage Worlds has two notable systems for managing Sanity -- one from the Horror Companion, the other from Realms of Cthulhu. The Horror Companion is a lighter touch -- you have a pool of Sanity based on Spirit + 2, and you only lose it when you roll a 1 on your Spirit check (or Guts, depending on the campaign). The Realms of Cthulhu sanity system introduces a new damage track, and is a lot crunchier; I prefer the Horror Companion version. I'll be posting those rules to this thread for review.

Sanity is another one of those setting-theme questions. Essentially the question is, how weird is weird? If we want a more pulp hero/mystery men style game, then we shouldn't use Sanity. If we want something that focuses more on Lovecraftian Weird/pealing back the veil/secrets man was not meant to know, then Sanity is very appropriate.

I think the key to sanity is that you don't want something *too* debilitating. Call of Cthulhu-style sanity seems too much for me -- with that game pretty much everyone goes insane at some point, it's just a question of when. If we want to use Sanity, I'd want something with a lighter touch, like in the Horror Companion. It's a danger, and it's out there, but unless you are rolling *really* badly, we shouldn't have PCs going crazy every session.

I'm in favor of the Horror Companion sanity rules, because I like being able to delve into the occasional Lovecraftian weird scenario. I wouldn't want the entire campaign to be like that, but I do like the idea of such dangers being out there. As I've written elsewhere, the sort of weird you find in Hellboy and BPRD appeals to me greatly.

What do you think?
"Oh, I'm so sorry. Forgive me. I'll try and be a tad more quiet as I desperately struggle to break free -- and save all creation!" -- Doctor Strange
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Re: Guts vs. Spirit

Post by NukeHavoc »

Sanity is a measure of a character’s mental well-being and resistance to the often terrible events around him. It is worn down by scenes of carnage, contact with terrible beasts, or learning forbidden knowledge. It is bolstered by triumphing over evil, rest and relaxation, or even counseling from professionals trained in psychotherapy.

In game terms, Sanity starts at 2 plus half a character’s Spirit. If his Spirit increases permanently, his Sanity increases by +1 as well. If his Spirit decreases permanently, it’s reduced by 1. Sanity is never affected by temporary changes to Spirit, such as the effects of a boost/lower trait spell. High Sanity means a character is wellgrounded and stable, while lower numbers mean he’s mentally fragile and prone to depression, paranoia, or delusions.

==Losing Sanity==
As a character battles the forces of darkness, he’s often forced to endure and
witness things that push him to his limits. Any time a character fails a Fear check he suffers the usual effects and loses one point of
Sanity as well. A character who fails and rolls a 1 on his Spirit die (or Guts die in settings that feature that skill) loses two points of Sanity.

Heroes with a Sanity of 2 or less are noticeably odd. People don’t feel comfortable around them, and they have a hard time fitting
in. The player should pick a Minor Habit to play until the character’s Sanity is 3 or higher. If a character’s Sanity drops to 0, he becomes genuinely deranged and must roll on the Psychosis Table (page 24).

Sanity can’t go below 0. If it would normally be lost, the character rolls again on the Psychosis Table. If duplicate results are rolled, the problem becomes worse. Maybe a character’s superstition goes from carrying a rabbit’s foot to having to frequently kill a fresh rabbit and harvest its feet himself. The details are left to the imagination of the individual, the Game Master, and the circumstances of the campaign.

==Recovering Sanity==
It’s far easier to go mad than to become sane. The mind is a fragile thing and as with the body, it’s easier to cause harm than it is to heal. Recovering Sanity is possible, however, if a little slow. By far the easiest method is to stay away from terrible things.

Three situations allow a victim a chance to recover Sanity, as listed below. In any of these situations, a character who’s lost Sanity may make a Smarts roll. If he’s successful, he regains a point, or two with a raise. A character’s Sanity can never exceed his normal maximum.

The three conditions that allow a victim to recover Sanity are:

* Triumphing Over Evil: The character participated in the defeat of a terrible
threat.
* A Month of Rest: Thirty days of rest and relaxation—away from detrimental stimuli—allows a victim’s mind a chance to heal and cope with what he’s seen. If the character has access to a qualified psychiatrist, he may add +2 to the roll. (This typically costs about $1000 a week, as an average.)
* The Healing Spell: Automatically recovers one point of lost Sanity if cast within an hour of its loss (two with a raise). Greater healing automatically restores all lost Sanity and psychoses.

Psychoses can be removed in the same way as regaining Sanity, only the Smarts roll is at -4. On a success, one Psychosis is removed, and on a raise two Psychoses are removed. Note these options can never remove psychological Hindrances a character chose at character creation as those are considered too deeply ingrained in their psyche.

==Psychosis Table==
1-3 Superstitious: The victim has found something that helps him deal with the terrors he faces. Pick a simple routine or object to be the focus of this disorder. As long as the focus is undisturbed, this character is fine. If the focus is lost or disturbed all Trait rolls are made
at –1.

4-6 Vacant Stare: The distant look in this character’s eyes speaks volumes about the horrors he’s seen. He makes all Notice rolls at –2.

7-8 Flashbacks: In stressful situations, the victim is overwhelmed by images of past encounters and dead comrades. He draws two cards per action and acts on the worst of the two. Heroes who draw more than one initiative card (such as Level Headed) draw one less card than normal instead. Reroll if the character already has the Slow Hindrance.

9-10 Fatalist: The character is depressed and believes the eternal struggle is all for naught. He suffers –4 to his Charisma. Should he have any Leadership Edges, his Command Radius is halved.

11-12 Night Terrors: The victim’s dreams are haunted by the things she’s seen. Make a Spirit roll at –2 each night (or rest period). If failed, the character is Fatigued until the next night’s sleep. If this causes Incapacitation, she falls into a fitful coma-like sleep (–4 to wake) for the next 24 hours.

13-14 Addiction: The victim has turned to drugs, alcohol, or other addictive substances to cope with his insanity. This gives him the Major Habit Hindrance.

15-16 The Shakes: In stressful situations, including combat, the character gets the shakes. This reduces all Agility and Agility related skill rolls by –2 until the source of stress is removed.

17-18 Paranoia: The victim feels every mystery has a deeper meaning and goes to great lengths to fit them into his skewed perception of the world around him. He trusts only his close friends (barely), and gains the Delusional Hindrance (Major), as well as a –2 to his Charisma.

19-20 Blood Lust: Carnage has awakened a strange desire for bloodshed within this unfortunate psychopath. He gains the Bloodthirsty Hindrance.

21 Unnatural Appetite: The character begins to believe he can survive only through eating strange and disgusting things. It starts simply enough, with bugs or paper or old chewing gum. This reduces his Charisma by –2 when dealing with those who know of these weird habits. If the character rolls this result again, it begins to progress in loathsomeness and frequency.

22 Marked for Death: The character’s will is battered to a bloody pulp by all he’s seen. He receives one less Benny at the start of each session.

23+ Permanent Psychosis: The character has suffered a shock from which he will never recover. He spends his days drooling and drawing pictures of strange creatures, when he isn’t strapped into a straightjacket and screaming at the top of his lungs—about monsters, that is. In general, characters who reach this state turn into maniacal villains under the Game Master’s control.

*Add the Fear modifier of the creature or encounter as a positive number to this roll.
"Oh, I'm so sorry. Forgive me. I'll try and be a tad more quiet as I desperately struggle to break free -- and save all creation!" -- Doctor Strange
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Jonkga
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Re: Guts vs. Spirit / Sanity Systems

Post by Jonkga »

My feelings on this would be:

1 - use Spirit and not Guts for checks.

2 - don't make Sanity an additional mechanic

3 - if we decide to go with Sanity, go with the lighter rules out of the Horror Companion as opposed to the more detailed Cthulhu rules.
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Drink and be whole again beyond confusion."
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Re: Guts vs. Spirit / Sanity Systems

Post by NukeHavoc »

Bob,

Is there a particular reason why you were interested in the Sanity rules?
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Re: Guts vs. Spirit / Sanity Systems

Post by EvilGenius »

Ahhhhhh, on reflection I like the way we're doing it now. We had talked about other things before but I think simplified is probably better.

Sorry for (re)opening the can of worms ..... :)
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Re: Guts vs. Spirit / Sanity Systems

Post by NukeHavoc »

EvilGenius wrote:Ahhhhhh, on reflection I like the way we're doing it now. We had talked about other things before but I think simplified is probably better.

Sorry for (re)opening the can of worms ..... :)
I'm cool with that. Anyone else feel like commenting?
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Re: Guts vs. Spirit / Sanity Systems

Post by erilar »

Not that I have any right weighing in at this point, but IMO this is Savage Worlds - simpler and faster is better.
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