Crime in Obsidian Bay

The Obsidian Bay campaign.
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NukeHavoc
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Crime in Obsidian Bay

Post by NukeHavoc »

I'm crossposting this here, so I can find it later.

Regarding the death penalty for thievery in Obsidian Bay, which Bob remembers the city having, I wrote:
Yeah, it's certainly a dangerous place to be a thief, though I think there's a difference between petty thievery (cutpurses, minor burglaries, etc.) and organized thievery (like a proper Thieves Guild).

Leading in illegal thieves guild probably ends in hanging. As for petty crimes, I could see public lashings or equivalent punishments for first time offenders, banishment and branding for second time offenders, and perhaps death for repeat losers. Bribing your way out of such a situation likely happens occasionally, but not nearly as much in greyhawk.

Regardless, there's probably not much imprisonment for such crimes aside from some high level individuals, as the society is not really setup to handle large numbers of prisoners (but I'll let Damon weigh in on prisons in medieval societies while I go and find my reference books...)
"Oh, I'm so sorry. Forgive me. I'll try and be a tad more quiet as I desperately struggle to break free -- and save all creation!" -- Doctor Strange
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NukeHavoc
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Post by NukeHavoc »

OB being a fairly lawful place (more so since the liberation) without a proper thieves guild, I see the city as being home to a number of loosely organized, hard-to-quash gangs.

They're not proper thieves guilds; if they were, the Professionals Guild or the City Guard would likely find and destroy them; they're more like street gangs: hard to find, hard to stop, and very violent. The Brainsmashers Gang and the Rusty Axes Gang fall into this category.

I'm also envisioning a market for secretive groups in the city, high level, high-risk organizations who fill the void left by a proper Thieves Guild. The Breakers, which Prug ran into early in the Dark City campaign.
"Oh, I'm so sorry. Forgive me. I'll try and be a tad more quiet as I desperately struggle to break free -- and save all creation!" -- Doctor Strange
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Post by NukeHavoc »

Magical Medieval Society argues that death for commoners who committed crimes in medieval settings was not unusual, but that execution for petty crimes might not fit player perceptions of a civil society.

The crimes section, which list most crimes you could commit, has these suggested penalties:

CRIME / PUNISHMENT FOR COMMONER
Theft (< 10 gp): 10 gp or Prison .05 months
Robbery (< 10 gp): 500 gp + Prison 12 months
Theft (10-100 gp): 100 gp + Prison 12 months
Assault (Weaponless) 100 gp

There are many more, but you get the idea.

They say prison time is fairly rare, which is understandable given the setting. Penalties for repeat offenses are usually the same as the first.

In OB, I could see setting up public punishments (lashings, etc.) for second and third offenses. Instead of prison, we might allow people to serve in the military instead (with desertion being punishable by death or banishment?)

As far as law enforcement goes, I think we tend to forget that while OB is something of an anachronism in Greyhawk it's city guards aren't all knowing, or even omnipresent. I think there are likely patrols on the main streets about two times a day, and perhaps patrols-in-force through areas that have been problematic recently (such areas where mobs have been active, or where there's been a particularly brutal series of murders).

There's not a cop on every street corner, though there are usually a dozen or so at the local barracks (as well as the gates and city walls). Per our earlier discussions, there are probably a few hundred guards in the city, but most of them are given over to actually *guarding* rather than active law enforcement. They'll respond to emergencies (as we've seen many times with the Blackrazors), but they aren't generally out there laying down the law.

That having been said, I think OB has a long-standing tradition of citizen defense. The Cuthbertians and both splinters of the Church of Trithereon are known to actively patrol the city, as are the Blackrazors.

IMHO in certain areas you're much more likely to run into one of them a city guardsman. Combined with the Lamplighters, who are always keeping an eye out for crime, and the Professionals keeping an eye out for those who get too greedy, you've got a good combination of private and public law enforcement.

Even then though, light crime is still likely rampant in the city. Muggings, cutpurses, robbery and burglary are regular occurrences. What makes OB different from other cities is that it actively tries to cut the head off the Thieves Guild hydra. Criminals are there, and while they do form ad hoc gangs, there isn't a meta organization holding them together.

Thoughts?
"Oh, I'm so sorry. Forgive me. I'll try and be a tad more quiet as I desperately struggle to break free -- and save all creation!" -- Doctor Strange
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Post by Hardcorhobbs »

I proposed creating an article about the city laws in another post. To carry that discussion forward:

I think an article detailing the city laws would be helpful for people like me who don't have all the history. It doesn't all have to be set in stone. Just like the rest of the city, detail what was decided in the past, and then add new laws/acts as needed. A short description of things like the sellsword act would be cool. Kerth may have only been in the city a few months, but Seamus was born in Coral Cove. He would know some of the laws.

As for these laws, they sound good. In one of the Scarred lands city's they force petty thieves to pay back twice what they stole, and go up from there. I could post it tonight for reference. Of course, the ultimate punishment is final forfeiture since it's a city of necromancers (LN, Necromancy not seen as evil... requires a lot of background to explain), but many of the others could apply.
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Post by erilar »

Interesting stuff, guys. Ken - very enlightening re. the city guard. I *had* been assuming that there weren't cops on corners, but also had assumed that there were scattered guards walking beats. (FYI, I had rolled for your rogue's luck re. the availability of guards when he was pickpocketing and your luck happened to be abysmal. :) )
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Post by NukeHavoc »

erilar wrote:Interesting stuff, guys. Ken - very enlightening re. the city guard. I *had* been assuming that there weren't cops on corners, but also had assumed that there were scattered guards walking beats. (FYI, I had rolled for your rogue's luck re. the availability of guards when he was pickpocketing and your luck happened to be abysmal. :) )
Yeah, I figured as much. :) I like the idea of having a quick reference chart for patrols in different city districts. For example:

Mudsitters District
01-75 None
76-85 City Guard
86-90 Blackrazor Guild
91-95 Cuthbertians
96-98 Earth Dragon
99-00 Trithereonites

That way all the GMs would be working from the same stats.
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Post by erilar »

Add in another category: something like "random good samaritan adventurer"?
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Post by NukeHavoc »

erilar wrote:Add in another category: something like "random good samaritan adventurer"?
I'd rather keep it to things we can easily make generic; e.g. a St. Cuthbert patrol or a City Guard patrol. Random adventurers would be a harder.

Maybe a 1% "Other" and leave what that means up to the GM?
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Post by EvilGenius »

NukeHavoc wrote:
erilar wrote:Add in another category: something like "random good samaritan adventurer"?
I'd rather keep it to things we can easily make generic; e.g. a St. Cuthbert patrol or a City Guard patrol. Random adventurers would be a harder.

Maybe a 1% "Other" and leave what that means up to the GM?
"Other" - rampaging monkeys?
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Post by NukeHavoc »

EvilGenius wrote:"Other" - rampaging monkeys?
With wands of wonder, yes. :)

Actually, I think the DMG has a table for semi-random events in the city (runaway carts, wandering ruffians, etc.).
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Post by Hardcorhobbs »

Crime and Punishment from Hallowfaust (From the book Scarred Lands Campaign Setting: Ghelspad)

Theft (up to 100 gp): Twice the value repaid. 1 Lash if repeat offender.
Theft (over 100 gp): Twice the value repaid and 5 lashes.
Vandalism: Twice the value of the defaced object, 10 lashes.
Assault: 50 gp, twice the victim's medical expense, and 3 lashes.
Assault/Impersonation of a guard, clerk or Stygian Guildsman: 100 gp, 10 lashes.
Assault/Impersonation of a Guildsman: 1000 gp, exile.
Assault/Impersonation of a Guildsman's Retainer or Magistrate: 500 gp, 10 lashes.
Disturbance of the Peace: 10 gp.
Murder: Final Forfeiture.
Rape: 20 lashes, final forfeiture.
Torture: 20 lashes, final forfeiture.
Sedition: Exile.
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Post by Lars Porsenna »

Just to keep things in the thread, when Ken asked me about crime and punishment in the MA, I mentioned that jailtime would be infrequent and quite temporary (basically to prevent the individual from skipping town). Incarceration as a war prisoner was a totally different animal.

Here's a short article I found on the subject: http://www.livescience.com/history/0608 ... rture.html

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Post by NukeHavoc »

Lars Porsenna wrote:Just to keep things in the thread, when Ken asked me about crime and punishment in the MA, I mentioned that jailtime would be infrequent and quite temporary (basically to prevent the individual from skipping town). Incarceration as a war prisoner was a totally different animal.

Here's a short article I found on the subject: http://www.livescience.com/history/0608 ... rture.html
Good article Damon, thanks!
"Oh, I'm so sorry. Forgive me. I'll try and be a tad more quiet as I desperately struggle to break free -- and save all creation!" -- Doctor Strange
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