Maddox Builds

[EvilGenius]

So here's what Maddox would look like at 10th if I go the starfighter route:
Stellar Warrior
Maddox CL 10

Medium Chiss Jedi 6/scoundrel 1/soldier 3
Init +12; Senses low-light vision; Perception +13
Languages Basic, Cheunh, Rodese

Defenses Ref 27 (flat-footed 25), Fort 28, Will 24; Block, Deflect, Vehicular Combat
hp 81; Threshold 28

Speed 4 squares
Melee lightsaber +12 (2d8+5) or
Melee lightsaber +10 (2d8+5) and short lightsaber +10 (2d6+5) or
Melee short lightsaber +12 (2d6+5)
Ranged by weapon +11
Fighting Space 1 square; Reach 1 square
Base Atk +9; Grp +11
Atk Options Dual Weapon Mastery, Point Blank Shot
Special Actions Knack 1/day
Force Powers Known (Use The Force +17) battle strike, Force slam, rebuke, surge

Abilities Str 10, Dex 15, Con 10, Int 14, Wis 16, Cha 14
Special Qualities build lightsaber
Talents Armored Defense, Block, Deflect, Force Pilot, Improved Armor Defense, Knack
Feats Armor Proficiency (light, medium), Dual Weapon Mastery I, Dual Weapon Mastery II, Force Sensitivity, Force Training, Gunnery Specialist, Point Blank Shot, Skill Focus (Knowledge [galactic lore], Use the Force), Vehicular Combat, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Proficiency (lightsabers, simple)
Skills Initiative +12, Knowledge (galactic lore) +17, Perception +13, Pilot +7 (may Use the Force +17 instead), Use Computer +12, Use the Force +17
Possessions lightsaber (tech specialist mod; +1 attack), Prototype Protective Armor Cortosis Weave Jedi battle armor (+6 armor, +6 equipment) with Vacuum Seals and Jump Servos, short lightsaber (tech specialist mod; +1 attack)

I've picked up a level of Scoundrel, but NOT for the Spacehound Talent (prof with all ship weaps, ignore 0 g penalties). Instead I took the Knack talent which allows you to re-roll a skill check 1/day. That works REALLY well with the Force Pilot Talent, which allows me to substitute my Use the Force skill for Piloting checks. So that gives me a +17 Pilot roll with 1 re-roll per day.

I've also taken the Vehicular Combat feat which will allow me to evade hits, and the Gunnery Specialist feat which will allow me to re-roll attacks if I'm the gunner.

With a decent Starfighter, this is an awesome ability combo.

[EvilGenius]

Lightsaber Specialist
Maddox CL 10

Medium Chiss Jedi 7/soldier 3
Init +12; Senses low-light vision; Perception +13
Languages Basic, Cheunh, Rodese

Defenses Ref 26 (flat-footed 24), Fort 28, Will 24; Block, Deflect
hp 83; Threshold 28

Speed 4 squares
Melee lightsaber +14 (2d8+5) or
Melee lightsaber +12 (2d8+5) and short lightsaber +12 (2d6+5) or
Melee short lightsaber +14 (2d6+5)
Ranged by weapon +12
Fighting Space 1 square; Reach 1 square
Base Atk +10; Grp +12
Atk Options Dual Weapon Mastery
Special Actions Redirect Shot, Riposte
Force Powers Known (Use The Force +17) battle strike, Force slam, rebuke, surge, circle of shelter, disarming slash, rising whirlwind, twin strike

Abilities Str 10, Dex 15, Con 10, Int 14, Wis 16, Cha 14
Special Qualities build lightsaber
Talents Armored Defense, Block, Deflect, Improved Armor Defense, Redirect Shot, Riposte
Feats Armor Proficiency (light, medium), Dual Weapon Mastery I, Dual Weapon Mastery II, Force Sensitivity, Force Training (2), Skill Focus (Knowledge [galactic lore], Use the Force), Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus (lightsabers), Weapon Proficiency (lightsabers, simple)
Skills Initiative +12, Knowledge (galactic lore) +17, Perception +13, Use Computer +12, Use the Force +17
Possessions lightsaber (tech specialist mod; +1 attack), Prototype Protective Armor Cortosis Weave Jedi battle armor (+6 armor, +6 equipment) with Vacuum Seals and Jump Servos, short lightsaber (tech specialist mod; +1 attack)


This version of Maddox focuses on Lightsaber combat. I've taken levels 4-10 in Jedi and picked up 2 more Jedi talents and several feats, all devoted to Lightsaber combat. With this build I can Block and then Riposte (free lightsaber attack after successful Block) or Deflect and then Redirect (free ranged attack with attackers blaster bolt). Weapon Focus and Dual Weap Mastery II help to offset the penalties for wielding two weapons. Lightsaber combat powers allow me to build toward the Lightsaber Combat Talents in the Jedi Knight prestige class, which I'll take from levels 11 - 20.

[Jonkga]

See, this was my point with my previous post - both of these builds are very viable. I mean, what, they have a +2 difference in attack bonuses, and both can block and deflect. So, really, I see the difference as what you want your character to be able to do. And, yes, I think your question is viable, because if we were going to do only ship combat, or only melee combat, then you'd want to plan accordingly. However, I'm pretty sure we will be doing a mix of both, as we have been, so it is really just what you prefer. Or, you could choose a build that mixes these two, and for example, not take riposte so you can take a ship-related power instead. Really, up to you and your vision of the character. Both these options look good.

For me, I am not planning on taking any ship related feats. I am just focusing on my soldier build. It turns out that indirectly helps me on ships guns (I guess, never found that in the text anywhere), so I gravitated to that position on the ship - if it had helped me with engineering, for example, I would have chosen that seat instead. And, if it didn't help at all, I would have used aid another or some such, or just strapped into a seat and waited out the space stuff.

[NukeHavoc]

I've also taken the Vehicular Combat feat which will allow me to evade hits, and the Gunnery Specialist feat which will allow me to re-roll attacks if I'm the gunner.

And when you transmorgify/retcon him into a Duros, he'll be nigh near unstoppable! (What book was that full-species transplant feat in again? )

[EvilGenius]

I Know EVERYthing!

Maddox CL 10

Medium Chiss Jedi 3/scoundrel 1/soldier 3/Jedi Knight 3
Init +12; Senses low-light vision; Perception +13
Languages Basic, Cheunh, Rodese; language absorption

Defenses Ref 27 (flat-footed 25), Fort 28, Will 25; Block, Deflect
hp 81; Threshold 28

Speed 4 squares
Melee lightsaber +12 (2d8+5) or
Melee lightsaber +7 (2d8+5) and short lightsaber +7 (2d6+5) or
Melee short lightsaber +12 (2d6+5)
Ranged by weapon +11
Fighting Space 1 square; Reach 1 square
Base Atk +9; Grp +11
Atk Options Dual Weapon Mastery, Point Blank Shot
Special Actions Scholarly Knowledge
Force Powers Known (Use The Force +17) battle strike, Force slam, rebuke, surge
Force Techniques Language Absorption

Abilities Str 10, Dex 14, Con 10, Int 15, Wis 16, Cha 14
Special Qualities build lightsaber
Talents Armored Defense, Block, Deflect, Improved Armor Defense, Insight of the Force, Scholarly Knowledge, Spacehound
Feats Armor Proficiency (light, medium), Dual Weapon Mastery I, Force Sensitivity, Force Training, Point Blank Shot, Skill Focus (Knowledge [galactic lore], Use the Force), Skill Training, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Proficiency (lightsabers, simple)
Skills Gather Information +12, Initiative +12, Knowledge (bureaucracy) +7 (may Use the Force +17 instead), Knowledge (galactic lore) +17 (may Use the Force +17 instead), Knowledge (life sciences) +7 (may Use the Force +17 instead), Knowledge (physical sciences) +7 (may Use the Force +17 instead), Knowledge (social sciences) +7 (may Use the Force +17 instead), Knowledge (tactics) +7 (may Use the Force +17 instead), Knowledge (technology) +7 (may Use the Force +17 instead), Perception +13, Use Computer +12, Use the Force +17
Possessions lightsaber (tech specialist mod; +1 attack), Prototype Protective Armor Cortosis Weave Jedi battle armor (+6 armor, +6 equipment) with Vacuum Seals and Jump Servos, short lightsaber (tech specialist mod; +1 attack)


This is more of a skill focused build. I went with a level of Scoundrel for the Spacehound talent, which aids my abilities a little in ship combat and a little in an unusual environment.

Then I went Jedi Knight early so I could get 2 JK Talents, which are just really broke-tastic. The first, Insight of the Force allows me to substitute my Use the Force check (+17) for any UNtrained knowledge skill!!! I already had Knowledge: Galactic Lore maxed out because of my Exile Background, but now I've got a +17 to EVERY knowledge skill. And the next Talent really takes the cake, Scholarly Knowledge. That allows me to re-roll any knowledge check as a swift action and keep the better result.

An additional Skill Training feat in Gather Information rounds out his skills, and should work beautifully with all of the Knowledge skills and my already impressive Perception and Use Computer skills.

Finally, I statted out this character with two special lightsaber crystals. The first gives me a +2 to my Will defense and the second transforms my short lightsaber damage to Ion damage for increased effectiveness vs droids (and spaceships).

So this build can do a lot of things all reasonably well. I've got very high defenses and can further defend myself in combat with Block/Defend. I'm effective in space combat. I'm also quite effective in a skilled advisor/Batman role.

[EvilGenius]

And when you transmorgify/retcon him into a Duros, he'll be nigh near unstoppable! (What book was that full-species transplant feat in again? )

You laugh but I stated out a Durosian fighter pilot to fly the prototype fighter I designed. Wicked.

Medium Duros scoundrel 8
Init +12; Senses Perception +9
Languages Basic, Binary, Bocce, Durese, High Galactic, Sullustese

Defenses Ref 23 (flat-footed 20), Fort 20, Will 19; Vehicular Combat
hp 18; Threshold 20

Speed 6 squares
Melee by weapon +6
Ranged DH-23 "Outback" blaster pistol +10 (3d6+7)
Fighting Space 1 square; Reach 1 square
Base Atk +6; Grp +9
Atk Options Desperate Gambit, Lucky Shot, Point Blank Shot
Special Actions Hyperdriven, Knack 1/day

Abilities Str 10, Dex 16, Con 10, Int 18, Wis 10, Cha 15
Special Qualities expert pilot
Talents Hyperdriven, Knack, Lucky Shot, Spacehound
Feats Desperate Gambit, Gunnery Specialist, Point Blank Shot, Scavenger, Skill Focus (Pilot), Tech Specialist, Vehicle Systems Expertise, Vehicular Combat, Weapon Proficiency (pistols, simple)
Skills Initiative +12, Knowledge (galactic lore) +13, Knowledge (tactics) +13, Knowledge (technology) +13, Mechanics +13, Perception +9, Pilot +17 (may reroll but must keep the result of the reroll even if worse), Use Computer +13
Possessions Bothan DH-23 "Outback" blaster pistol with Pulse charger and Targeting scope, standard, Prototype Fortifying Armor flight suit (+1 armor, +2 equipment; tech specialist mod: +1 reflex defense) with Diagnostics System

Expert Pilot (racial), re-roll Pilot skill check, 1/day
Spacehound, proficient with ship weaps and ignore 0 g.
Knack, re-roll 1 skill/day
Lucky Shot, re-roll 1 attack/day
Desparate Gambit, re-roll missed attack at -2 penalty, 1/round
Hyperdriven, add +8 to one skill, attack or ability check 1/day
Gunnery Specialist, re-roll attack roll 1/encounter
Vehicular Combat, negate attack against ship 1/round
Vehicle Systems Expertise, fix stuff better, faster, stronger

[EvilGenius]

See, this was my point with my previous post - both of these builds are very viable. I mean, what, they have a +2 difference in attack bonuses, and both can block and deflect. So, really, I see the difference as what you want your character to be able to do.

The real difference between the two builds, in terms of lightsaber combat, is not just the 2nd tier talents (redirect and riposte) but the Saber form powers. For example, I took the following powers: circle of shelter, disarming slash, rising whirlwind, twin strike

Circle of Shelter - every ally adjacent to me gets a +1, +2 or +5 Deflection bonus to their Reflex defense. Spend a Force Point and they get the same bonus to their Fort Defense. If I take the right lightsaber Talent when I hit Jedi Knight, I get to apply the bonus to my Block/Deflect rolls.

Disaming Slash - make an attack against an opponent. If you hit, immediately make a disarm attempt with your Use the Force score. Spend a force point to damage the weapon when you damage your opponent. Take the lightsaber Talent and use this as a reaction to being attacked by an adjacent opponent.

Rising Whirlwind - make two lightsaber attacks against different opponents. If you hit both, you gain 10-25 bonus hit points. Spend a force point to deal and extra 1d6 per attack. Take the Lightsaber talent and move 2 squares for free in between attacks.

Twin Strike - make one attack and if successful add the base weapon damage of your second saber to the attack (helps overcome damage reduction/thresholds). Spend a force point to add +1 die of damage. Take the lightsaber Talent and triple your Deflection bonus to Reflex Defense while using this ability.

So these abilities REALLY give me a huge amount of options in melee or ranged combat and give me abilities that others are unlikely to have, so that can really help the mission.

It turns out that indirectly helps me on ships guns (I guess, never found that in the text anywhere)

Page 89 of Saga under the Weapon Proficiency feat. It says you gain proficiency with one of the following weapon groups. For heavy weapons it says in parenthasis, includes vehicular weapons and starship weapons.

[Jonkga]

Right, Bob. You took a great deal of feats to make him super-awesome in combat. And I don't disagree. Those powers look very cool. But, take a few less, and balance that with a few ship feats, and your in-between guy is just about as good as both your other builds. So, really, I still think it just comes down to what you want to do. Ultimately, if you make a guy who is all lightsaber-y combat guy, and we spend all our time on the ship, he will still be able to pilot and gun and all that. No, he may not be the best, but the rules don't preclude it. I'm just saying that we don't have to go to such great lengths to build the prefect guy - the rules as writen seem to have a bit of forgiveness in them for just such an occurance.

Again, just my two cents...

[EvilGenius]

Best of Everything
Maddox CL 10

Medium Chiss Jedi 4/scoundrel 1/soldier 3/Jedi Knight 2
Init +12; Senses low-light vision; Perception +13
Languages Basic, Cheunh, Rodese; language absorption

Defenses Ref 27 (flat-footed 25), Fort 28, Will 25; Block, Deflect
hp 81; Threshold 28

Speed 4 squares
Melee lightsaber +12 (2d8+5) or
Melee lightsaber +10 (2d8+5) and shoto +10 (2d6+5) or
Melee shoto +12 (2d6+5 ion)
Ranged by weapon +11
Fighting Space 1 square; Reach 1 square
Base Atk +9; Grp +11
Atk Options Dual Weapon Mastery, Point Blank Shot
Force Powers Known (Use The Force +17) battle strike, Force slam, rebuke, surge, circle of shelter, fluid riposte, rising whirlwind, Shien deflection
Force Techniques Language Absorption

Abilities Str 10, Dex 15, Con 10, Int 14, Wis 16, Cha 14
Special Qualities build lightsaber
Talents Armored Defense, Block, Deflect, Improved Armor Defense, Insight of the Force, Spacehound
Feats Armor Proficiency (light, medium), Dual Weapon Mastery I, Dual Weapon Mastery II, Force Sensitivity, Force Training (2), Point Blank Shot, Skill Focus (Knowledge [galactic lore], Use the Force), Weapon Finesse, Weapon Proficiency (lightsabers, simple)
Skills Initiative +12, Knowledge (bureaucracy) +7 (may Use the Force +17 instead), Knowledge (galactic lore) +17 (may Use the Force +17 instead), Knowledge (life sciences) +7 (may Use the Force +17 instead), Knowledge (physical sciences) +7 (may Use the Force +17 instead), Knowledge (social sciences) +7 (may Use the Force +17 instead), Knowledge (tactics) +7 (may Use the Force +17 instead), Knowledge (technology) +7 (may Use the Force +17 instead), Perception +13, Use Computer +12, Use the Force +17
Possessions lightsaber (tech specialist mod; +1 attack), Prototype Protective Armor Cortosis Weave Jedi battle armor (+6 armor, +6 equipment) with Vacuum Seals and Jump Servos, shoto (tech specialist mod; +1 attack)


So why not combine the prior builds?
This build includes:
Spacehound benefit to help shoot 'em up in space combat
Better chance to hit in melee with my dual weapon build
Lightsaber Form Powers to give me crazy melee combat actions (and provide Redirect and Riposte-like abilities)
The levels of Jedi Knight and Knowlege Skill/Use the Force substitutions (but not the re-rolls)

[EvilGenius]

I'm just saying that we don't have to go to such great lengths to build the prefect guy

But .... but .......

[Jonkga]

I'm just saying that we don't have to go to such great lengths to build the prefect guy

But .... but .......

Let me rephrase:

We don't have to build the perfect guy for any *one* situation, we can build the perfect guy for what we want to play, content in knowing he will still be viable in other situations as well.

Better?

[Hardcorhobbs]

Let me rephrase:

We don't have to build the perfect guy for any *one* situation, we can build the perfect guy for what we want to play, content in knowing he will still be viable in other situations as well.

Better?

What about fishermen?

[erilar]

What about fishermen?

Ohhhh no - no fishermen! Way too OP!

[Jonkga]

What about fishermen?

Ohhhh no - no fishermen! Way too OP!

I'm sure you meant OG - fishermen are definitely gangsta!