D&D Miniatures - 2.0

The forum for little figures blowing up other little figures.
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moths
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D&D Miniatures - 2.0

Post by moths »

Well, if you're like me you enjoy a good old-fashioned miniatures skirmish game. And you like it cheap, as in - free.

So you've probably already downloaded the next edition of the D&D Skirmish rules and revised cards from the same page.

One of the cooler things about this is that you really don't need to buy anything unless you want to. They're revising the cards for entire line of minis from 2003 to present. So unless you mind using a bottle cap to represent Drizzt, Drow Ranger it's not going to cost a cent.

Holy crap.
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Lars Porsenna
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Post by Lars Porsenna »

Certainly is a nice gimmie from WotC. Although personally I wonder how many people actually play the minis game, rather than use the stuff for D&D? Not my cup o' tea (I'm not a huge fan of skirmish level games; the more figures I can put on the table, the better).

Damon.
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erilar
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Post by erilar »

wow, that's so much kinder and gentler than just deprecating the whole past product catalog like most companies do. I'm looking at you, Games Workshop and HeroClix!
"This enemy you cannot kill. You can only drive it back damaged into the depths, and teach your children to watch the waves for its return." - Quellcrist Falconer
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EvilGenius
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Post by EvilGenius »

erilar wrote:wow, that's so much kinder and gentler than just deprecating the whole past product catalog like most companies do. I'm looking at you, Games Workshop and HeroClix!
Ahh, clix didn't do soooo bad. The point calculator has obviously been changed, so new figures are way more efficient than old figures of similar point totals. But WK has extended some new mechanics back to the old figures, specifically the Keywords.

WK published a keyword list for every figure all the way back to the beginning.
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NukeHavoc
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Post by NukeHavoc »

Lars Porsenna wrote:Certainly is a nice gimmie from WotC. Although personally I wonder how many people actually play the minis game, rather than use the stuff for D&D? Not my cup o' tea (I'm not a huge fan of skirmish level games; the more figures I can put on the table, the better).
From what I hear on podcasts, it seems there's a sizable D&D Minis game community. I'd never have expected that, but there appear to be a bunch of people (particularly those who game in stores) who's weekly gaming fix is a D&D minis game.

So from that perspective, 4E is as much about converting those players to D&D as it is pulling in MMORPG people.
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Jonkga
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Post by Jonkga »

Yeah, the D&D Minis tables at Gen Con certainly didn't look empty anytime I was in that room...
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erilar
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Post by erilar »

The thing that's always struck me weird about D&D minis is that it's pretty much 3.x rules with no roleplaying. So why not just play hack & slash D&D?
"This enemy you cannot kill. You can only drive it back damaged into the depths, and teach your children to watch the waves for its return." - Quellcrist Falconer
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Lars Porsenna
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Post by Lars Porsenna »

Exactly.

What does te D&D minis game add for a D&D campaign? Just an easier engine to handle horde type encounters? I'd rather they had done a full-blown mass combat mechanism instead, to add that element to a campaign. That unfortunately was not what it was...

Damon.
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EvilGenius
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Post by EvilGenius »

Lars Porsenna wrote:What does the D&D minis game add for a D&D campaign?
Not a damn thing.

However, that's not the correct question. The correct question is "What does the D&D Minis game add to WotC/Hasbro?

The answer is this: a collectible mini game to tap into the (at the time) WILDLY successful Heroclix market, and to take market share away from metal minis companies like Reaper. It attempted to make WotC the primary place to get D&D minis.

Pretty good idea, IMO, but not super well executed.
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Hardcorhobbs
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Post by Hardcorhobbs »

And, now that we've changed the D&D rules in 4e to REQUIRE a map and minis, they'll sell like hotcakes!
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NukeHavoc
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Post by NukeHavoc »

erilar wrote:The thing that's always struck me weird about D&D minis is that it's pretty much 3.x rules with no roleplaying. So why not just play hack & slash D&D?
I haven't read the rules, but from what I understand it's a pretty stripped version of D&D 3.x. Hell, it would have to be -- can you imagine two people trying to field multifigure warbands using the standard 3.x rule set? Combat would take five hours!

So the answer is ... because the game's a lot quicker.
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erilar
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Post by erilar »

NukeHavoc wrote: So the answer is ... because the game's a lot quicker.
You're missing what I said. D&D Minis *is* D&D without the roleplaying. Combat-wise, it's essentially the exact same game.

As Damon said, I think that's where it ultimately fails - you *can't* do any grand-scale battles with it. It's much more a HeroClix-scale (re. the numbers of combatants) rather than Warhammer Fantasy Battle or whatever. You couldn't fill the table up with two armies unless you had a spare week and some psychotropic anti-boredom IV medication to play the thing out.
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Jonkga
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Post by Jonkga »

Hardcorhobbs wrote:And, now that we've changed the D&D rules in 4e to REQUIRE a map and minis, they'll sell like hotcakes!
Except, you still can't just buy the ones you want unless you go to an aftermarket dealer, so while some additional sales may be seen with the advent of 4.0, I'm not buying any until I can buy just the ones I want and not be stuck with hordes of crappy figures I'll never use.
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Drink and be whole again beyond confusion."
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Hardcorhobbs
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Post by Hardcorhobbs »

Jonkga wrote:Except, you still can't just buy the ones you want unless you go to an aftermarket dealer, so while some additional sales may be seen with the advent of 4.0, I'm not buying any until I can buy just the ones I want and not be stuck with hordes of crappy figures I'll never use.
I hole-heartedly agree. Between that fact, and the fact that they've changed the size of half the monsters I've already signed off. I will not be buying any more D&D minis unless I pick up some after-market singles.
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EvilGenius
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Post by EvilGenius »

Excellent point, Jon. And a perfect illustration as to how WotC completely misunderstood their potential market.

If it's random, you get kids buying multiple packs looking for 'collectible' pieces, or just trying to get a piece they need.

On the other hand, DMs and players can't say "we're starting a dwarves vs. orcs campaign. everyone pick up a set of dwarves and orcs". DMs can't say, 'this adventure calls for a Chimera. I need to run to the gaming/toy store and pick up a pack of CR 5 monsters. Oh hey, maybe I'll throw in a bullette random encounter since he's in there too.'

I have no empirical evidence to back this up, but in looking at the needs of my D&D campaigns, stretching from today back to 1978, (almost all of which I remember in embarrassing detail) I ALWAYS needed minis for specific monsters and characters.

There is NEVER a time where I would not have wanted to purchase cool, pre-painted, official D&D minis that I could have used for specific adventures.
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