Action Points in Dark City?

The Obsidian Bay campaign.
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NukeHavoc
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Action Points in Dark City?

Post by NukeHavoc »

I've been reading through the "Book of Roguish Luck", the new thief book from Malhavoc Press. It's pretty good -- lots of good rules for stuff we're dealing with in the Dark City campaign, like gambling, bribery, fencing goods, etc.

One concept it introduces is "luck points", which are sort of like action points in d20 modern or action dice in Spycraft -- the idea is that your character has a pool of points that can be used to buy exceptional effects. For example, if you just blew your save, you could spend a luck point to re-roll it. Same goes for pretty much any d20 roll. You can also spend them to buy certain things; e.g. confirm a critical automatically, lessen the impact of falling off a building, etc.

The luck system they use in this book is a little too overpowering for my taste -- it skews more toward Spycraft's high-octane approach. However, it did get me to thinking about whether we might want to introduce action dice to the Dark City campaign.

Action dice are described in Unearthed Arcana, and basically the deal is that you get a certain number of dice to start with, and then gain more each level. The number of dice you get depends on level -- at low levels its 1d6, at medium levels its 2d6, and at high levels its 3d6.

The idea is that you spend these dice (one die per roll) to augment some action by your character. Really, REALLY want to make that attack? Spend an action die? A little nervous about making that save? Spend an action die. You can also spend them for a variety of non-roll effects, including getting an extra attack for one round, boosting your caster level by 2 for one round, temporarily gaining a feat for one round (you must qualify for it), automatically stabilizing your character, and buying an extra use of a class ability (i.e. use stunning blow another time a day).

You don't get a huge number of action points per level, so while some of the above uses may seem exceptional, that's kind of the point. :)

* * *

I think introducing this mechanic into "Dark City" would help reinforce the heroic theme of the campaign by providing characters with the ability to do the exceptional. Further, it should help considerably with Prug (and to a lesser extent with some of the other characters, like Thom, who think big, but roll small) by making it a little easier to stand toe-to-toe with the bad guys. It will also help me with rewards -- I don't intend to give out action points like candy, but if someone does something exceptional (role-playing, combat, whatever) I'd give him an AP. Again, this helps specifically with Prug, who can't have magic items, but who could occasionally use the boost that magic items provide.

* * *

Finally, we've been using action points in George Hardy's campaign. They haven't had a huge impact yet -- to be honest, most of us forget to use them -- but they're sure nice to have around when you do remember, and realize that you might need a little something ... extra ... to take down that werewolf...

Thoughts?
EvilGenius

Post by EvilGenius »

I like the concept as long as it's not too drastic. There should still be a very real and constant chance of failure, for every action.

Are there any restrictions on when you can use Action Dice? I mean, if you use them to accomplish pretty mundane tasks, or in a minor combat encounter, it seems to sully the concept a bit.

And how does the d6 mechanic work? If you're augmenting an attack, do you roll an additional d6 and add to your attack roll? Or does it get you a re-roll? Is it automatic sucess?
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erilar
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Post by erilar »

I think that Eberon has a concept like this - Jon, correct me if I'm wrong. I haven't gotten to that part in the book...

Perhaps the dice engine from that setting would be about the level of cinematic heroism we are after? I think they were shooting for an Indiana Jones-esque feel.
"This enemy you cannot kill. You can only drive it back damaged into the depths, and teach your children to watch the waves for its return." - Quellcrist Falconer
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NukeHavoc
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Post by NukeHavoc »

erilar wrote:Perhaps the dice engine from that setting would be about the level of cinematic heroism we are after? I think they were shooting for an Indiana Jones-esque feel.
The action points mechanic from Unearthed Arcana is the same as what they're using in Eberron (or about the same; I'd need to do a side-by-side comparison to be sure). And I do think that "Dark City" and Ebberon share a certain cinematic flair above and beyond that in Soul Stones or Maure Castle -- in Dark City, you want to be able to stand up to that crazed murderer and pull off that stunning flurry of blows attack, or make that heroic leap between buildings or ... whatever.

IMHO it's not so much about negating the chance for failure, as it is making it more likely that you'll be able to pull off those heroic feats when you really need to. I'll answer Bob's questions in more detail over lunch.
Last edited by NukeHavoc on Tue Sep 27, 2005 12:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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erilar
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Post by erilar »

I think action points would be a welcome addition to DC. We've all created - and are continuing to develop - characters that are more suited to roleplaying than combat due to the setting. Occasionally, when we do get in a scrape, I'm sure others are thinking the same thing as me - "crap, what do I do now?!?" :)
"This enemy you cannot kill. You can only drive it back damaged into the depths, and teach your children to watch the waves for its return." - Quellcrist Falconer
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Post by Hardcorhobbs »

I like action dice. I run them in my own games of D&D. I do not like how they are used in said games however. I've seen many action dice blown to negate a critical fumble. The rule is you can add an action die roll after you roll, but before the dm gives you the result. So I roll a 1, before the dm says "Fumble" I roll an action dice and simply fail. I've pushed my game away from this and action dice have become forgotten. So in my own game they havent really been a benifit.

However a star wars campaign I was in years ago used action dice and it really made the game. We were doign all kinds of rediculas stuff because there was a greater chance of pulling it off. It really made the game alot of fun.

So they can be good and bad, but I'm still in favor of them.
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Post by NukeHavoc »

EvilGenius wrote:Are there any restrictions on when you can use Action Dice? I mean, if you use them to accomplish pretty mundane tasks, or in a minor combat encounter, it seems to sully the concept a bit.
Regarding when you can use them, UA states:
You can spend 1 action point either to add to a single d20 roll, to take a special action, or to improve the use of a feat.

You can spend 1 action point in a round. If you spend a point to use a special action ... you can't spend another one in the same round to improve a die roll, and vice versa.
So the short answer is, no, there's no inherent restrction on when you can use them -- if you want to blow an action point to get a bonus while performing that skill check to tie your shows, nothing's going to stop you. But I think the expenditure of action points is largely self-regulating. For one thing, if you blow AP on mundane tasks, you won't have them when you need them (and you get few enough of them that they do need to be horded).

Plus, I'm sure we'll mock those who spend their AP on such mundane tasks. :)
EvilGenius wrote:And how does the d6 mechanic work? If you're augmenting an attack, do you roll an additional d6 and add to your attack roll? Or does it get you a re-roll? Is it automatic sucess?
You roll a d20, then roll the d6 and add it to your initial d20 throw. You can choose to spend an action point after rolling your d20, but you must do so before the DM declares whether it succeeded or failed (i.e. you rolled a 12, but you're not sure if that'll cut it, so you spend an action point to roll a d6, which generates a 4. Your total roll becomes a 16 (plus any modifiers of course, which only apply to the total roll, not each separate die).

That's the most basic use of action points. There are two others given in Unearthed Arcana; we'll have to decide if we wnat to use those as well:

Special Actions

You can use an action point to do one of the following special actions:

* Activate Class Ability (e.g. smite attack, stunning blow)

* Boost Defense: Gain the benefits of fighting defensively for the round without actually having to fight defensively.

* Emulate Feat: Gain a temporary feat for one round; you must qualify for the feat.

* Extra Attack: As part of a full-attack action, gain another attack at your highest attack bonus.

* Spell Boost: Increase effective caster level by 2.

* Spell Recall: Those who prepare their spells in advance can spend a point to recover a spell they just cast. Spontaneous spell casters can use a point to cast a spell without using up a daily spell slot.

* Stable: Spend 1 pt to become stable at current HP total.

Improving Feats

The book includes rules for improving feats with AP (i.e. if you have blindfighting, spend one AP to negate your miss chance), but I think there are two few feats listed to make this worthwhile, and the above actions, combined with the normal use of of AP, would be good enough for us.
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Post by NukeHavoc »

So the next logical question is ... how many action points do you get? To start, each character would have a number of action points equal to 5+1/2 his current character level.

So right now that's about 7 action points for each character in the Dark City campaign (maybe 8). You gain the same amount of action points each time you level.

I could also see house ruling it to set the number of action points per level at something like 2+1/2 level, and then giving out AP as rewards (the 5+1/2 level assumes you aren't using AP as rewards). Setting AP to a lower level would make them more valuable (though it might also keep people from using them to do heroic type stuff.

Ken
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Post by Jonkga »

I'll have to look up the Eberron and UA action dice to re-read those before I comment. But the Star Wars d20 does use "force points" that are very similar to the action dice you outlined above. I'm sure looking at the rules in all three sources we could house rule a system that would work for us should we want to add this -- and so far most people want to.

Something to consider, in SW, it is a d6 roll, or 2d6 or 3d6 etc at higher levels, that is added to a d20 when you declare you are using a force point. Also, that result is noted and added to every d20 roll for the entire round. So, if you declare you are using a force point on your first attack, it applies to all your attacks. Then, it stays in effect if, for example, you need to roll a save before it comes around to your turn again.

That may be more than we want, but again, we can look at all the rules sets we have an cobble together something.

For, example, I'm not sure for our campaign, an entire round would be necessary. And, I'm not sure we need to increase the number of dice an action point gives us -- one d6 might be fine for our purposes even at higher levels.
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Post by NukeHavoc »

I think carrying the bonus throughout the entire round would be excessive -- I'm in favor of a focused bonus to one roll. As far as increasing the number of action dice goes, I'm not sure if its necessary or not. My inkling would be that you'd need to increase it to keep up with increasing DCs, but then again your characters own stats are increasing too, so maybe you don't need that 2d6 or 3d6.

I'd be included to go with the base rule and increase the number of dice and then see how it shakes out.

ken
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Post by NukeHavoc »

Hardcorhobbs wrote:So they can be good and bad, but I'm still in favor of them.
One way to make them more than just game mechanic currency is to have a house rule that you have to describe the exceptional action you're making -- it's not enough to say "I spend an action point to negate the critical" but rather you say "that crossbow bolt was about to go flying into my foot, but I pulled back just enough to get it to ricochet off the door instead." It's a little thing, but in keeping with the the spirit of the campaign, IMHO.

Ken
EvilGenius

Post by EvilGenius »

uh oh. Damon will never get to use action dice then. :)
NukeHavoc wrote: One way to make them more than just game mechanic currency is to have a house rule that you have to describe the exceptional action you're making -- it's not enough to say "I spend an action point to negate the critical" but rather you say "that crossbow bolt was about to go flying into my foot, but I pulled back just enough to get it to ricochet off the door instead." It's a little thing, but in keeping with the the spirit of the campaign, IMHO.

Ken
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Post by Lars Porsenna »

So why not?

Damon.
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Post by EvilGenius »

'cause how many exciting and dramatic ways can you describe character death? :wink:
Lars Porsenna wrote:So why not?Damon.
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Post by Lars Porsenna »

This is for Dark City...how many times has Prug bit the dust, and how many times has Corash???

Damon.
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