The Mandalorian Interlude

[Jonkga]

The traditionalist Mando culture does not specifically advocate conquest; that's the Neo-crusaders. Traditionalist Mandos have an individualist-warrior culture that emphasises self-reliance (with guns).

Re: dirty harry. I'm referring to the Clint Eastwood movies of the '70s....

Damon.

yes, Damon, I know the movie. I just have absolutely no idea how a crazy gun toting cop from the 70s has anything to do with the Mandalorians. At all. I don't get why you'd reference the one with the other. That's what I was wondering.

[Jonkga]

And, yes, I see the description of the traditional Mandalorians, and they aren't the warlike crusaders. But even with their focus on the battle and challenges for the warrior in their culture, I don't really see them as the major force int he Mandalorian wars. That seems specifically to be the Crusaders. So how could we really have a band of traditional Mandalorians? I don't think they'd fight in the wars. From the description, it doesn't seem to be their thing. We'd almost have to be Crusaders.

Again, maybe I just don't get it.

[EvilGenius]

I think there were many Mandolorians in the war who saw the war itself as the ultimate test of their courage and martial prowess. They may have been under the ultimate command of the Sith, and they may have used non-traditional tactics that the Sith and Neo-Crusaders implemented but once commanded and unleashed, the Mandalorians fought for the Glory of War.

That's pretty different than our normal outlook on things.

However, we're not suggesting playing the Mandalorians as a chance to play the bad guys. We're playing the other side of the war so that we see the other side of the story and don't just have a narrative paragraph about the state of the galaxy when we come back to our heroes.

And individual Mandalorians fighting in the war don't have to be evil. Mandalorians have VERY strong codes of honor. So we don't have to drink the blood of younglings for these adventures (unless you wear Krath armor. 'mommy, the demon-froggie is under my bed!! I see the two riiiiiiiiiiinnnggsssssssssss!!!')

[EvilGenius]

As for Force users in the Mandolorians, there's no reason to restrict it. The Force binds all living things together, after all.

In traditional Mandalorian culture, I would think that they would see using the Force as a substitute for strength and martial prowess as cheating, and dishonorable. But if you still had the strength and martial prowess AND you could use the Force? I think they would respect that. After all, their strongest warrior, their leader, was defeated by a Force user. If ever there's a time for the Mandalorians to accept the wierd abilites of one of their own, the time is now!

[NukeHavoc]

And individual Mandalorians fighting in the war don't have to be evil. Mandalorians have VERY strong codes of honor. So we don't have to drink the blood of younglings for these adventures (unless you wear Krath armor. 'mommy, the demon-froggie is under my bed!! I see the two riiiiiiiiiiinnnggsssssssssss!!!')

Right. And there's nothing that says the enemy has to be the Republic. The war begins on the Outer Rim, so our Mandos could easily be launching a strike against Hutt space or some other villainous target.

[Jonkga]

I don't know, I'm not sure I can get behind this. So maybe I should sit out the Mandalorian stuff. I just don't really get the "why" for this part.

Seems I've been on a different page with the Star Wars stuff in general.

[Lars Porsenna]

Ken,

How much cash are we getting too? We'll need it for equipment (FREX, the Mando combat suit has 5 upgrade slots, so we'll need that) plus I'm assuming since we're Mandos we'll need tricked out guns too...

Damon.

[NukeHavoc]

How much cash are we getting too? We'll need it for equipment (FREX, the Mando combat suit has 5 upgrade slots, so we'll need that) plus I'm assuming since we're Mandos we'll need tricked out guns too...

Oh definitely. I need to go back to our earlier CR-per-level conversation, which has a number that I think will work.

[NukeHavoc]

Based on my earlier back-of-the-envelope calculations for starting credits with a 5 player party:

8th / 17000
9th / 19000
10th / 21000

So it's really a question of what level we want to play at. 8th is the bare minimum IMH as that gets you a level in a prestige class; as Jon pointed out last night, 10th gets you another talent (5 talents vs. 4 talents IIRC).

[Hardcorhobbs]

To me the Mandalorians are simply a warrior society who believes proving oneself in combat is a noble endeavor. The Neocrusaders are a bit different. They want conquest, and have taken control of many leadership positions in an attempt to bring forth their agenda. Convincing the rest of the mandalorian society to join them, they set out conquering the area beyond the outer rim (where the mandalorian's were forced to retreat to). Eventually the most radial Neocrusaders (perhaps with a little push by the Sith) begin to attack the republic, hoping to draw them into a fight.

So I see the Mandalorians as the Spartans. Their more radical members draw them into a fight with their neighbors. Eventually, those radical members start trying to goat all of Greece into a fight just to prove themselves. We, the normal members of the society, are caught in the middle. If we don't join the fight we'll be looked upon as cowards, so the alternative is join a fight we don't really understand.

I don't see us as bad guys at all. Just some normal members of society thrust into circumstances beyond our control by our radical leaders.

[Lars Porsenna]

Dude, so not-Spartans...

Mandos in the EU literature are straight up, gun toting Libertarians of the craziest streak. The Spartans were an ultra-Authoritarian regime that conquered and enslaved a neighboring city state in order to make sure their warrior class should never have to work or toil at menial jobs ever in their lives. The Spartans even had a secret police to spy upon and monitor the Helots never got out of hand. Once a year the Kings of Sparta declared war on the Helots so that the Spartan soldiers could kill Helots without risk of reprisal or ritual pollution. Finally, the only reason the Spartans came into conflict with the rest of Greece was because of Athen's threat over Spartan hegemony (and later Thebes for that matter, and Argos before them all)...

So Sparta as a proto-Fascist state better describes the Neo-Crusaders, but even then the only similarities is the desire for hegemony and rock-hard troops.

Damon.

[EvilGenius]

Heh. Damon said 'rock-hard'.

In the Soul-of-a-Mando debate, I'll take one from Column A and one from Column B. I agree with Damon about the crazy Libertarian, to a point. Mandalorians are taught to be self-reliant and stong individuals. However, the Mandalorians also have a strict Code of Honor that informs absolutely every aspect of their lives. And it's not 'do whatever the hell you want'. The Code tells a Mandalorian EXACTLY what is valued and measures every Mandalorian against that scale. And Mandalorians believe in the efficacy of group tactics in warface to the core of their being. And that's really more Spartan-ish.

Even 'ordinary' Mandalorian citizens are taught to fight and to master themselves and their crafts. And all 'ordinary' Mandalorian citizens can only gain so much honor outside of a battlefield.

[Lars Porsenna]

Great. Now I want to paint some Athenians...

Damon.

[Lars Porsenna]

Seriously, the Legacy of the Force series of SW novels deals with Mandalore and the rebuilding after the Yuusung Vong war, specifically as it covers Boba Fetts legacy and role as Mando'ade (head honcho), and the politics read almost as if it was lifted from a Heinlein book. In The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, a judge can call an ad-hoc, on the spot trial on a street corner by petitioning passer-bys to sit in jury. Boba Fett does something vaguely similar when trying to push through some "legislature" (i.e. make sure all the other Mando clan leaders are all on the same page as him). So I think a lot of EU development of Mando culture is very much a nod to Heinlein's crazier Libertarian ideas...

No group marriages though...

Damon.

[Hardcorhobbs]

So... then I have no idea who or what the Mandalorians are...

*Goes to hang out on Jon's side of the boat*