Starship Stats

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EvilGenius
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Starship Stats

Post by EvilGenius »

I'm reading up on starships and vehicles and I REALLY wish WotC would have thought out spaceship design/explanation a little better. I can't seem to find the answers to some basic questions.

Specifically, most ships have a listing for skills like Initiative, Perception, Mechanics and Use Computer. Where do the modifiers come from? Initiative is dex based so I was thinking the ships Dex Mod + the Crew Level - the Size Penalty, but the numbers never work out for the listed ships. :/ For example, an XWing has a Dex of 22, which would be a +6 modifier. +5 for a Normal crew, -5 for being Gargantuan size should be Initiative of +6. But the book lists as +7. Likewise Mechanics would be the Normal crew modifier of +5. Should you include the ships Int modifier? For an XWing that should give you a Mechanics check of +8 but the book lists as +6.

And this one really gets me. Perception. It's a Wisdom based skill and ships don't have a Wisdom stat. So do you just use the crew modifier? Again, a crew rated as Normal should then give a +5 Perception check and the XWing lists +6 (or +3 if you have an AstroMech who apparantly can't see crap out of that big central eye on a 360 degree swivel).

The Pilot skill is also off. Crew rating Normal is +5. XWing Dex mod is +6. Size penalty is -5 so the Pilot Modifier should be +6 but the stats say +7. Use Computer: Crew rating Normal is +5. Ship Int Modifier is +3 so Use Computer should be +8 but is listed as +6.

So WTF? Is there some obscure sentence somewhere that gives a different model than Crew Rating +relevant ability mod -size penalties (where appropriate)? I checked the Use Computer, Pilot and Initiative skill descriptions to see if maybe on a ship you substitute Use Computer for Perception or something but I can't find anything and the numbers don't support that kind of substitution either. Do we just make some stuff up, 'cause I can DO that.
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NukeHavoc
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Re: Starship Stats

Post by NukeHavoc »

The short answer is that they couldn't come up with a starship building system that would accommodate every ship in the Star Wars universe, so they didn't try. Every ship is custom built to reflect what that ship should be able to do based on what we see in the movies or the EU. It's not like Traveller, where the rules determine the universe.

That said, while I understand why they did this, I would like to have seen a ship building system that tried to provide a ruleset that accommodated maybe 70-80 percent of what we see.

The closest you can get to what you're looking for is the ship building rules in Starships of the Galaxy. Not perfect (they force you to start with certain stock ships) but I think they'd let us come up with whatever custom ship we'd need.
"Oh, I'm so sorry. Forgive me. I'll try and be a tad more quiet as I desperately struggle to break free -- and save all creation!" -- Doctor Strange
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EvilGenius
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Re: Starship Stats

Post by EvilGenius »

I'm okay with that decision, but I think they could have accomplished the same end by providing manufacturer/model modifications. Standard Superiority Fighter use these stats. Incom fighters (xwing, ywing, etc) add these mods. Xwing class, add these other mods. Put together a few packages and you can apply them as you need. Or even say manufacturer modifies hyperdrive, emplacement points, armor and weapons, model/class modifies stats and skills. If they gave a standard template it could be incredibly flexible.

For example, as a starfighter class, distribute a total of +6 ability mod bonuses.
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Re: Starship Stats

Post by Hardcorhobbs »

Maybe it's why SSotG is out of print right now?
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EvilGenius
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Re: Starship Stats

Post by EvilGenius »

NukeHavoc wrote:The closest you can get to what you're looking for is the ship building rules in Starships of the Galaxy. Not perfect (they force you to start with certain stock ships) but I think they'd let us come up with whatever custom ship we'd need.
I was attempting to create a "Jedi" starfighter last night using the rules from Saga and Starships of the Galaxy. And it worked pretty well except they don't mention how you derive the Skills, hence my post.

I think we should just rule the additional skills as using the pilot's relevant skill plus penalties for size (to inititive, pilot and stealth rolls), plus any special equipment modifiers. So if you have the improved sensor package, you make perception with a bonus (whatever the bonus is listed as in the book).

I think this would only apply to Inititive, Stealth, Use Computer, Perception and Mechanics.
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Re: Starship Stats

Post by NukeHavoc »

EvilGenius wrote:I was attempting to create a "Jedi" starfighter last night using the rules from Saga and Starships of the Galaxy. And it worked pretty well except they don't mention how you derive the Skills, hence my post.
I'll have to take a gander at it. I know you have to reverse engineer the crew quality stats out of it, but I hadn't tried to create anything from scratch (or near-scratch).
"Oh, I'm so sorry. Forgive me. I'll try and be a tad more quiet as I desperately struggle to break free -- and save all creation!" -- Doctor Strange
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Re: Starship Stats

Post by EvilGenius »

Creating from Scratch: Here's the process I used.

I started with a Bomber since it's already a 2 seater.
Base Bomber Stats are:
Str 46, Dex 18, Int 14, Speed 16/3, HP 150, DR 10, Armor +8, Emplacement Points +10, Cost 50,000 credits.

With the 10 emplacement points I purchased:
Rank 8 Hyperdrive: (pretty damn slow). Normally this would be 1 emplacement point but all hyperdrives are non-standard modifications on starfighters so it costs 2 emplacement points and 1,500 credits (low cost because it's so damn slow).

Maneuvering Jets, +6: 4 emplacement points, +6 equipment bonus to Dex, 10,000 credits.

Sensor Array, +2: 1 emplacement point, +2 equipment bonus to Int, 5,000 credits.

Shields, SR20: 1 emplacement point, 1,250 credits.

Double Medium Laser Cannon, 5d10x2: 1 emplacement point, 12,000 credits

Pilot Double Medium Laser Cannons, 5d10x2: 1 emplacement point, 12,000 credits.

Tech Specialist Adjustments:
Vehicle: Enhanced Dexterity +2
Weapons: Improved Accuracy

Gives the total of:
Str 46, Dex 26, Int 16, Speed 16/3, HP 150, DR 10, SR 20, Armor +8, Cost 91,750 (before Tech Specialist Mod cost)

Reflex Defense 21 (10, +8 armor, +8 ship's Dex, -5 size)
Fort Defense 28 (10, +18 ship's Str)
Gunner: Double MLas Cannon, +4 bonus to hit (+3 ship's Int, +1 Tech Specialist), 5d10x2
Pilot: Double MLas Cannon, +4 bonus to hit (+3 ship's Int, +1 Tech Specialist), 5d10x2

So, pretty decent ship. The only thing that would still be nice to have is a little more room for cargo. This ship has consumables for 2 days (per occupant). With a rank 8 hyperdrive, it takes 1d6x8 days to get from point A to point B in hyperspace, so that could be a problem. :)
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Re: Starship Stats

Post by Hardcorhobbs »

As I recall the regress reverse engineered just fine... I'm going to post the stats on the wiki this week so I'll let you know if there was some kind of trick to it or if it works ok.
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Re: Starship Stats

Post by NukeHavoc »

EvilGenius wrote:So, pretty decent ship. The only thing that would still be nice to have is a little more room for cargo. This ship has consumables for 2 days (per occupant). With a rank 8 hyperdrive, it takes 1d6x8 days to get from point A to point B in hyperspace, so that could be a problem. :)
Yeah, I think that could certainly be somewhat of a flaw in the design. :twisted:

So what do you think the CL of this thing is? What's a comparable ship in terms of shields, firepower and HP?
"Oh, I'm so sorry. Forgive me. I'll try and be a tad more quiet as I desperately struggle to break free -- and save all creation!" -- Doctor Strange
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EvilGenius
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Re: Starship Stats

Post by EvilGenius »

NukeHavoc wrote:So what do you think the CL of this thing is? What's a comparable ship in terms of shields, firepower and HP?
I'm looking at other bombers in SotG and I think my initial design is roughly equal to the Scimitar Assault Bomber (page 127) and the Miy'Til Assault Bomber (pg 113). Both are CL 11.

Scimitar:
Reflex 17, Fort 28, +8 armor
HP 150, DR 10, SR 25, Threshold 48
Speed 16/4
Base Attack +2
Abilities: Str 46, Dex 19, Int 18
Light Laser Cannon: +2 ship bonus +gunners BAB, 4d10x2
Med Concussion Missile: +2 ship bonus +gunner's BAB, 9d10x2, 4sq splash
Escape Pod
Crew 2
Consumables 2 days

Miy'Til:
Reflex 17, Fort 27, +8 armor
HP 120, DR 10, SR 30, Threshold 47
Speed 16/4
Base Attack +2
Abilities: Str 44, Dex 18, Int 16
Hyperdrive x2
Laser Cannon: +2 ship bonus +gunner's BAB, 5d10x2
Med Concussion Missile: +2 ship bonus +gunner's BAB, 9d10x2, 4sq splash
Crew 2
Consumables: 2 days


Bob's Jedi Fighter:
Reflex 21, Fort 28, +8 armor
HP 150, DR 10, SR 20, Threshold ??
Speed 16/3
Base Attack +4
Abilities: Str 46, Dex 26, Int 16
Hyperdrive x8
Double Med Laser Cannon: +4 ship bonus +gunner's BAB, 5d10x2
Pilor Double Med Laser Cannon: +4 ship bonus +gunner's BAB, 5d10x2
Crew 2
Consumables: 2 days
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Re: Starship Stats

Post by NukeHavoc »

I didn't want to start a new thread, so I figured I'd post it here.

The Order 66 podcast dedicated episode #81 (or at least the feature portion of the episode) to ship building and combat. One of the things they were talking about was making attacks, and I think we may have been doing that wrong.

When calculating your attack bonus on a ship, the formula is:

1d20 + Your Base Attack Bonus + Ship's Intelligence Modifier + Range

I think in some incarnations of ship combat, we'd been slipping the ship's size modifier into the stats, but that doesn't seem to be the case. The "size modifier" section says the ship's size modifier only factors into its Reflex Defense, Pilot checks, and Initiative checks. It doesn't affect attack roles, and it doesn't affect skill checks other than Pilot and Initiative checks.

That said, we may have done that right last time around, but I know we've been confused in the past, so I thought I'd throw it out there again (especially as I'd like to do a bit more starship combat during the Mandalorian Wars).
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Re: Starship Stats

Post by EvilGenius »

I know we did it correctly in the last combat, but I can't vouch for combats before that.
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